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Q3 - FTTdp, Helsinki WED AM-1, September 13, 2017, Work Area Opening & Closing Minutes:
TUES AM-1, September 12, 2017, WT-355a1 YANG Modules for FTTdp Mgmt:
WED AM-1, September 13, 2017, WT-355a1 WT-374 G.hn
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| Item | Timeslot / Session /Location
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1 |
Monday 24 October 2016
13:30-15:30
Roanoke
2nd Floor
Non PS Aligned
Agenda bashing
IPR declarations
Meeting Minutes:
Call Agendas and Minutes - FTTdp 'Q3 Interim Meetings'
Incoming Liaisons:
bbf2016.975.00 (FTTdp is Primary),
OD-379 Interoperability Test Plan for FTTdp PMA/DPU Management Interface
Led by:
Attendees:
Marta Seda, Sumithra Bhojan, Ludwig Pauwels
Dong Wei, Nick Hancock, Vincent Buchoux
Richard Goodson, Ilya Lifshits
No changes to the agenda as discussed. Noted that 1071.01 was uploaded post deadline. It was agreed to accept the revision 01.
No IPR Declarations
Meeting minutes as mentioned in the contributions and those that are uploaded on the Wiki were approved. URL for those on the Wiki needs to be added.
(AP - URL for Q3 Interim Meetings was added)
bbf2016.1047 - SG15 to BBF - Will be reviewed in join session, but feeling is that it is just an FYI. No action needed from FTTdp.
bbf2016.1046 - Documents from ITU-T - More FYI and notification of taking into account our feedback. No action needed from FTTdp.
bbf2016.974 - Incoming Liaison from ETSI ATTM TM6 - Question on the maximum latency allowed when forwarding message. Appears to be an implementation question rather than something that needs to be specified. We are aware of the necessity to send the message as quickly as possible, but we would not specify a particular value as it would be left up to implementer. Will discuss during joint session on Tuesday 4pm with PhyTX.
bbf2016.978 - Response from IETF on YANG model work - Acknowledging the fact we are referencing their work and collaborating with them. Highlighting work ongoing on QoS YANG model which is currently a personal draft that may become a working group draft. FYI and no response required from FTTdp.
bbf2016.975 - Valid range for specific objects - Actual number of bits per symbol. Highlighting that there was a mistake in their previous documentation. Joey Boyd to confirm if this change has been actioned or not. No response required.
AP - Joey Boyd confirmed that this change has been actions. No further action required.
bbf2016.574 - Old liaison that was held open to await papers on the IL-338. Text changes have been made.
AP - Christopher Croot to create text to send latest version of 301i2 WT highlighting that we have changed the text in accordance with their comment.
No contributions at this meeting. Marcin Drzymala has suggested that he has an intention to provide contributions.
It was also mentioned that there was a possibility of holding an interim meeting to tackle the SB comment resolution for TR-301i2 and this could be held in Ipswich at BT some time mid to late Jan 2017.
The opening session was concluded.
Tuesday 25 October 2016
08:00-10:00
Grand Ballroom E
2nd Floor
FTTdp Management PS
WT-298i2 Mgmt. model for DSL line test:
WT-374 Yang Models for Mgmt of G.hn Systems in FTTdp Architecture
WT-393 Persistent Mgmt Agent Aggregator (PMAA) Mgmt Model:
Tuesday 25 October 2016
10:30-12:30
Grand Ballroom E
2nd Floor
Architecture & Requirements PS
WT-301i2 Fiber to the Distribution point:
WT-393 Persistent Mgmt Agent Aggregator (PMAA) Mgmt Model:
Tuesday 25 October 2016
13:30-15:30
Grand Ballroom E
2nd Floor
Architecture & Requirements PS
WT-301i2 Fiber to the Distribution point, cont.
Tuesday 25 October 2016
16:00-18:00
Grand Ballroom A,B,C & D
2nd Floor
JOINT SESSION
Fiber to the Distribution Point
Physical Layer Transmission
Architecture & Requirements PS
Liaison:bbf2016.974.00
WT-301 FTTdp on Common G.fast and RPF issues:
Wednesday 26 October 2016
08:00-10:00
Grand Ballroom E
2nd Floor
FTTdp Management PS
WT-355a1 YANG Modules for FTTdp Mgmt:
Thursday 27 October 2016
13:30-16:15
Grand Ballroom E
2nd Floor
Common YANG
Fiber to the Distribution Point
WT-383 Common YANG (new work): cont. (if FTTdp agrees)
OD-360 Best Current Practices for developing YANG models:
bbf2016.1141.00 (Tools Discussion)
Fiber to the Distribution Point Closing
Agree next steps
Finalize outgoing liaisons
Teleconference schedule
Closing plenary slides
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Agenda for 2016 Q3 Face to Face Meeting - Berlin
Timeslot/Session/
Location
Monday 25th July
16:00-18:00
Salon Bellevue
FTTdp Opening Session
Agenda Bashing
Meeting Minutes:
2016.583
2016.584
2016.613
2016.614
2016.629
2016.632
2016.637
Incoming Liaisons:
2016.704
2016.705
2016.867
NPIFs:
None
Review FB Versions of WT-355 & WT-377
FTTdp Management Interop
WT-301i2:
2015.1126.04
WT-301i2 IL:
2012.1466.23
Opening Session Led by:
Agenda as modified was agreed.
Meeting minutes
2016.583, 2016.584, 2016.613, 2016.614,2016.629, 2016.632 and 2016.637 approved.
Liaisons
2016.704 - RPF Managed Objects draft for G.997.2
Latency question is perhaps more Architecture related. Liaison was briefly reviewed.
AP - Jan Errygers (Commscope) agreed to look at the ETSI liaison.
Will be reviewed in detail during the joint session.
2016.705 - Managed objects used by the DPU rather than used by the PMA.
Question around where the state machine would run as the expectation would be that it would be the DPU running the state machine rather than the PMA.
Relating to the software image of the G.fast DPU.
Mauro - question on if the code to that goes to the unit is the full code or separate for the different parts of the DPU. It would be the entire DPU code.
Reviewed in the joint session tomorrow.
2016.867 - SELT in g.fast deployment
Mainly for PhyTX. Expectation to cover in the joint session, but there is a wish to have a teleconference to cover if needed before the next SG15/Q4 meeting.
Update on YANG on WT-355 / WT-371
YANG Models Advice to not to include specific revision dates. - Removed the revision dates Mike has some concerns especially over when we have test specifications we will need revision dates. If we don't, then we have a moving goalpost. Ken - think it is simpler. Just use the version by the supported The module has a specific revision date. It is about how the modules reference each other. All this is doing is removing from the modules itself the versions of the other modules. Always inside the module, but filename will have revision date on the file. So where are we removing the date from - If we have module A wanting to inport Module B, then rather than importing a date specific version, it will just pick up the latest version.
The Revision date of each individual file will be set to 18th July 2016 (Date of FB approval). The Revision comment to reference the approval will have the approval and publication date. The BBF URL will be added as part of the "organisation" statement
The organisation statement was shown to the group
Any objections to the above changes - None
Software IPR
The New IPR policy is now in force from 24th June. There is a requirement that before submitting any contribution of software/ data models the form in Appendix A of the IPR policy needs to be filled in. DIscussion for having it apply to an individual or all memebers of a company and if it applies to just a project or multiple projects or various grouping of. The policy is in force and there is a short grace period and any such contributions will be discussed but it is a requirement of the author to ensure the form is filled in retrospectively.
What happens at this meeting? - We proceed as normal at present.
There is a webpage that shows who has filled in the form.
Update on FTTdp management interop project stream OD-374
Next steps on FTTdp management interoperability
The FTTdp management interop PS started a long time ago, but we have had no contributions apart from an outline framework. This is expected as we haven't had the management models available. Now the modules are published there is better ground to publish the test plan.
Mauro mentioned that he would like to go a little further than just that and have a look at the opportunities for the BBF to get into the NETCONF/YANG testing. The is an opportunity for working on the test plan and working on DPU-PMA test plan with a common part about the parts that are common and can be reused. e.g. NETCONF channel establishment. It could also help in stating how we do tests for SDN enabled devices. We could have a double stimulus to work on this and enable reuse within other projects.It could also be abstrated away from the PMA and DPU.
The PMA tends to be provided from the same vendor as the DPU as a piece of software that will run in some virtualised environment. This removes some of the pressure for the interop becuase of this bookending. The point of the DPU-PMA YANG model is to drive the interoperability.
We are also looking to drive the NBI interface from the PMA which is key to the operator.
There was a comment that there is nothing wrong with this approach if there are common items, but as we haven't had any work on it so far, then let's not try to add lots of additional work to do.
It was seen that there is value in broadning the scope to take into account the some of this commonality, but we need to identify the expertise to help contribution. It may be that we start with the expertise within the FTTdp area as this is where the focus is at the moment and then potentially expand.
AP - Chris & Sven : Make Michael Fargano aware of this point.
There will be parts in the DPU session establishment that are specific 301 items, but there could be standards just for opening the session.
AP - Christopher Croot & Sven Ooghe: Request to stimulate the discussion at the SC level.
AP - Christopher Croot - Request the secretariat to create the OD-374 document on ARO
301i2 - WT review latest version - Presented by Mike Shaffer
The latest version of the WT was presented and the updates to 301i2 between Prague and this meeting were shown. The revision was accepted as presented.
Issues list - presented by Dong Wei
The latest version of the issues list was presented and the updates were shown. The latest revision was accepted as presented.
General WT-301i2 Discussion
We have spent a long time preparing Issue 2 and we have a spreadsheet with the items that we considered important - bbf2015.1126. Within this all the items that we have done are marked green. Those in yellow have been started and those left as white have not been started. We still have quite a few topics that are marked as 1st priority items but have not yet been started.
One item that has been added was a suggestion that a requirement to use the YANG models as described in 355 should be added into 301i2. This was supported by the group.
There is a wish to wrap up the current issue as quickly as possible and we need to get folks to pick up those items that need completing and drive them through. Even if we just covered the yellow items.
Timescales for completion of the issue were discussed and it was agreed to aim for an agreed SB version out of the Q4 meeting so that we would be doing SB CR in the Q1 2017 meeting. We would need several interim teleconferences to pick up the requirements with an expectation to get the owners of the items in the spreadsheet covered.
AP - Sven Ooghe & Christopher Croot to send an email to the exploder detailing the agreed timescales and call to complete the open topics
There were 12 people attending the session :
Ken Kerpez, Assia Inc.
Sumithra Bhojan, AT&T
Marcin Drzymala, Orange
Jan Erreygers, CommScope
Andreas Frangou, Cyta
Thomas Haag, Deutsche Telekom A/G
Shrinivas Joshi, Nokia
Lincoln Lavoie, UNH InteOperability Lab
William Lupton, BBF
Sven Ooghe, Nokia
Marta Seda, Calix Networks
Mike Shaffer, Nokia
Mauro Tilocca, Telecom Italia S.p.A
Dong Wei, Huawei
Tuesday 26th July
1600-1800
Grand Ballroom III
JOINT - Fiber to the Distribution Point & Physical Layer Transmission
WT-301 FTTdp on Common G.fast and RPF Issues:
Liaisons
2016.704 OAM for RPF
2016.705 Managed objects for software download
2016.867- ITU-T on SELT
2016.574 - ETSI Liaison on RPF
Contributions
2016.843.00 Low Power Modes on fiber
2016.811.01 On RPF Current drain limits
2016.844.01 Additional T&D req
2016.846.00 FTTdp vectoring strategies
Led by:
Liaisons
bbf2016.704 - Frank Van der Putten presented
This is a liaison from Q14/15 referring to the RPF OAM. Q4 has been sending liaisons and received 2 from ETSI on RPF specification. The 1st version has now been approved. This has been communicated to Q4/15 and agreed a while ago to include the managed objects derived from the ETSI document in G.997.2.
There was agreement to create Annex A to G.997.2. The goal is to consent this by the end of Sept and the liaison attached the current WT. Asked for review and comments by TM6 and /or BBF. Few questions in response to ETSI in response to latency.
Latency between DPU and PMA don't think ETSI is the correct place to answer. Also question of ETSI TM6 from RPF that require low latency. Two listed the dying gasp & OHP technical study required to validate the latency.
We are asked to answer the question on DPU/NTE latency. The feeling is that this is a Q4 question down to EOC. The DPU to PMA latency question is unclear. The following actions were agreed:
AP - The FTTdp WA will need to use the Annex A material to start producing the YANG models for the RPF OAM.
The DPU - PMA latency is seen as an irrelevant question
The latency on dying gasp are currently under study in Q4
There are no further actions for the liaison at this time.
Wednesday 27th July
08:00-10:00
Grand Ballroom III
Architecture & Requirements PS
1st hour to cover any overflow from joint PhyTx / FTTdp Session
WT-301 FTTdp, Cont.:
2016.510.00 : Scope of certificate management in WT-301i2
2016.699.00 Netconf and FTTdp discovery mechanisms
2016.736.00 IPFIX subscription mechanism
Led by:
10:30-12:30
Grand Ballroom III
Architecture & Requirements PS
Continued…
Wednesday 27th July
13:30-15:30
Grand Ballroom III
FTTdp Management PS
WT-355 YANG Modules for FTTdp Mgmt:
2015.511.13 (TR-355) YANG Modules for FTTdp Management
2016.109.05 (TR-371) G.fast Vector of Profiles (VoP) Managed Object Structure,
2016.677.00 PMA requirements for interference handling
2016.752.02 G.Fast Bonding Management
2016.779.00 State Change Principles
2016.819.00 Precision on YANG module support by DPU
2016.821.00 YANG module for DPU identification on PON
Led by:
WT-355 YANG Modules for FTTdp Management
William Lupton made the announcement about the software contribution agreement. We want this to be in place before the first interim meeting.
Contributions considered today will go into WT-355 Amendment 1 (WT-355a1). Note: there was some discussion of whether this should be Amendment 1 or Issue 2 but subsequent discussion seemed to assume Amendment 1.
bbf2015.511.13: (TR-355) YANG Modules for FTTdp Management
Plan to publish the YANG to public GitHub next week. There is some minor clean-up, e.g. adding publication dates and README files.
We will continue to use the WT-355 repository for WT-355a1. We need to define branch rules for maintenance etc.
We need to create a WT-355a1 document. See bbf2016.819.00 discussion below.
bbf2016.677.00: PMA requirements for interference handling (China Telecom)
Some discussion of what is meant by "interference". There are existing statistics such as quiet line noise, but is this going beyond this? Yes, it's a high-level requirement.
The PMA can't itself detect interference, so would also need a DPU requirement to detect interference, then report to PMA, then report northbound. Suggestion to add a PMA NBI requirement, e.g. for an alarm, and request re-contribution to propose adding such a requirement.
bbf2016.752.02: G.Fast Bonding Management (Calix)
Reiterated yesterday's Common YANG alarm discussion in which it was agreed to work on alarms in IETF. The alarm module should be removed from this contribution and any gaps should be addressed via the IETF alarm work.
Discussion of the proposal to increase the maximum fragment size. The ITU-T standard still says 512 so it shouldn't be increased.
Discussion of why the proposal is specific to G.fast. It should work for VDSL too. Also, it currently supports only BACP, and needs also to support G.hs.
Discussion of whether DPU bonding requirements should be in WT-301 or WT-355. Although there are arguments for including it in WT-301 it's easier to add such requirements to WT-355 because WT-355 updates will be synchronized with DPU YANG updates.
Discussion of the nature of alarms. An alarm can be a leaf node that represents an error, a YANG notification, or handled via the alarms module. Can return to this as part of the generic alarm discussion.
As a specific point, 64/65 encapsulation isn't defined for G.fast, so it needs to be part of the VDSL model.
AP - Marta Seda - Remove the alarm module, remove alarms that use it, and make the bonding model generic (adding G.hs and using YANG features where appropriate); also remove the WT-301 requirement.
bbf2016.779.00: State Change Principles (Nokia)
Clarified that (slide 4) notification types are:
- Notifications handled via the alarm module.
- Notifications handled via NETCONF system events (relevant only if have multiple NETCONF clients).
- Notifications handled via YANG notifications (indicating command completion).
- Notifications handled via YANG notifications (indicating asynchronous events).
Reiteration that the YANG push work (including RFC 5277bis) is relevant for the Common YANG PS but not for the FTTdp Management PS. [Ed: this was agreed in Prague when discussing contribution bbf2016.472..: Bulk Counter Collection]
bbf2016.819.00: Precision on YANG module support by DPU (Orange)
AP - WT-355 editors - Create a WT-355a1_Rev-00 that includes this info.
bbf2016.821.00: YANG module for DPU identification on PON (Orange)
Discussion of whether the SFP serial number? note that the PON termination module has gone
Discussion of whether this (very small) module could be combined with another module. For example, could have a PON up-link model. Would need to think about the eventual structure so it's future-extensible.
AP - Contributors - Define a bbf-pon-id module that augments ietf-interface (will need to add the when clause later).
Wednesday 27th July
16:00-18:00
Grand Ballroom III
FTTdp Management PS
WT-355 YANG Modules for FTTdp Mgmt. Cont.:
2016.824.00 Persistent Management Agent Aggregator (PMAA) Management Model
Led by:
bbf2016.824.00: Persistent Management Agent Aggregator (PMAA) Management Model (Orange, TI, ASSIA)
To avoid confusion about which interface is being referred to, it would be better to talk in terms of the Q reference point, which is the reference point northbound of the PMAA.
Discussion of the need for abstraction and aggregation on this interface. YANG schema mount was mentioned as one way of handling aggregation (to support pass-through). More abstract models could be in addition to this, e.g. to define a higher-level concept of profiles.
Discussion of the "MUST re-use WT-355" requirement. This is too prescriptive at this stage and will be changed to "MUST leverage the WT-355 design".
WT-393 has been assigned, and the editors are Ken Kerpez and Joey Boyd.
AP - Ken Kerpez - Make changes arising from discussion and upload as WT-393_Rev-00.
10:30-12:30
Salon Bellevue
Non PS Aligned
Overflow
13:30-15:30
Salon Bellevue
Fiber to the Distribution Point Work Area - Closing Session
Agree next steps
Finalize outgoing liaisons
Teleconference schedule
Closing plenary slides
Led by:
Reviewed the WA closing plenary slides.
WT-298 needs to have a call to discuss going to SB
AP - Sven Ooghe & Christopher Croot to e-Mail Marco on 374 to get dates he can do and pass to doodle poll
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Friday 9th September 2016
07:00-09:00
IPR Declarations
Agenda Bashing
- Led by: Joey Boyd
- Attendees: Christopher Croot, Dong Wei, Michael Bugenhagen, Tom Starr, Sailesh Suman, Fred Chu, Joey Boyd
bbf2016.386.02 : WT-298i2_Rev-02 (ADTRAN)
- Agreed to go to straw ballot with this revision.
- Action: Joey Boyd will upload.
- None.
- Tuesday 13th September, 07:00-09:00 PDT.
- Monday 3rd October, 08:00-10:00 PDT.
- Tuesday 11th October, 07:00-09:00 PDT.
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Tuesday 13th September 2016
07:00-09:00
IPR Declarations
Agenda Bashing
- Led by: Ken Kerpez, Joey Boyd
- Attendees: Frank Van der Putten, Ari Sodhi, Nick Hancock, Sumithra Bhojan, Sven Ooghe, Tim Carey, William Lupton, Michael Fargano, Vincent (LAN), Ken Kerpez, Joey Boyd
bbf2016-909.00 : YANG Modules for FTTDp Management - Amendment 1 (ASSIA)
- Ken Kerpez presented revision 0 of the WT-355a1 document which added the list of mandatory/optional models for a model 1 and 2 DPU.
- Action: Ken Kerpez to edit to make bbf-fastdsl MANDATORY for both a model 1 and 2 DPU.
- Action: Ken Kerpez to replace reference(s) to RFC 6020bis with RFC 7950.
bbf2016.935.01 : Errors found in TR-355 issue 1 (Nokia)
- Section 2 : VDSL - Init Failure
- Agreed
- Action: Ken Kerpez to fix.
- Section 3 : FAST - Actual Aggregate Transmit Power
- Agreed
- Action: Joey Boyd to fix.
- Section 4 : FAST - Bit allocation per sub-carrier
- Agreed
- Action: Joey Boyd to fix.
- Section 5 : VDSL - structure of per sub-carrier state objects
- Not agreed due to backward compatibility issues.
- Section 6 : FAST - structure of per sub-carrier state objects
- Not agreed due to backward compatibility issues.
- Section 7 : FAST - FRA TIME special value and MF dependent valid range
- Agreed with minor change to include 0 in the ranges in the 'must' statement
- Action: Joey Boyd to fix.
- The discussion of sections 5 and 6 led to discussing what are the rules for updating a published YANG model.
- Action: Need some text in OD-360 describing the rules.
bbf2016.970.00 : G.997.2 conditional default values (Nokia)
- Agreed to send a liaison to ITU regarding the use of conditional defaults.
- Action: Joey Boyd to send an email to IETF NETMOD about modeling conditional defaults in YANG.
bbf2016.955.01 : Addition of alarms, alerts and TCAs to the G.fast and VDSL YANG data models (Nokia)
- Agreed in principal.
- Action: ADTRAN and Nokia to work on the details along with common YANG joint work on alarm managment and specifically bbf2016.735.00.
bbf2016.954.00 : YANG model for RPF (Nokia)
- Need to attempt to the references to DPU and G.fast to make it more generic.
- Agreed to a bbf-rpf YANG model.
- Action: ADTRAN and Nokia to collaborate on the model including alarm details in conjunction with bbf2016.955.01 and bbf2016.735.00.
YANG Publication
- Need to determine how bug fixes can be quickly published. The use of a draft publication was mentioned. Need SAG processes allow these to happen.
- Need to determine how to best use the branches in Bitbucket to manage bug fixes, published models, amendment work, etc.
- Monday 3rd October, 08:00-10:00 PDT.
- Tuesday 11th October, 07:00-09:00 PDT.
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Monday 3rd October 2016
08:00-10:00
IPR Declarations
Agenda Bashing
- Led by: Ken Kerpez, Joey Boyd
Attendees: William Lupton, Marcos Martinez, Tomer Cohen
bbf2016.1023.02 : Proposal on updates to WT-374 (Marvell)
- Agreed
- Action: Marcos Martinez to create pull request for fork containing these edits. William Lupton to run the YANG through the YANG edit tool.
- Discussion: A G.hn if-type should be requested from IANA. Capabilities should be removed, similar to FAST. No uppercase identifiers. Use type string-ascii64. May move to WT-374 to bitbucket.
- None.
- Tuesday 11th October, 07:00-09:00 PDT.
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October 11, 2016
IPR declarations
Agenda bashing
Led by: Ken Kerpez, Joey Boyd
Attendees: William Lupton, Frank Van Der Putten, Nick Hancock, Sven Ooghe, Mike Fargano, Mauro Tilocca, Sumithra Bhojan
bbf2016.935.01, "Errors found in TR-355 issue 1"
bbf2016.1039.00, "Publication mechanics for software revisions"
There are multiple ways to organize internal software development using tags and/or branches.
Similarly, externally published amendments and corrigenda may be posted by using: versioned names, different directories, or delineated with tags.
A revised version of bbf2016.1039 will incorporate feedback from discussion of this.
It was agreed to use a rapid straw ballot process for the publication of WT-355 Corrigendum 1; and also to initiate discussion in SAG of a rapid "hotfix" publication process.
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2017 Q2 Face to Face Meeting - Taipei
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Recent Meetings
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2017 Q1 Face to Face Meeting - Chicago
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Archived & Agreed Minutes / Agendas
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October 11, 2016
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- IPR declarations
- Agenda bashing
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Led by:
Attendees:
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Item three
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Item four
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